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	<title>Comments on: Letâ€™s Keep Criticism Honest</title>
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	<link>http://blog.dennisfox.net/index.php/archives/2008/01/25/let%e2%80%99s-keep-criticism-honest/</link>
	<description>Political and Personal Observations</description>
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		<title>By: Harel</title>
		<link>http://blog.dennisfox.net/index.php/archives/2008/01/25/let%e2%80%99s-keep-criticism-honest/comment-page-1/#comment-302005</link>
		<dc:creator>Harel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 02:19:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dennisfox.net/index.php/archives/2008/01/25/let%e2%80%99s-keep-criticism-honest/#comment-302005</guid>
		<description>Dennis, your link to the Q/A has a typo, &quot;html://&quot; when you meant &quot;http://&quot;

I am an Israeli born dual citizen (US and Israel) and have spent most of my life in the US. Naftali&#039;s view of the world is a caricature that bears little resemblance to reality, but sadly is it not uncommon.

People can believe that &quot;all men are create equal&quot; and still own slaves, and people can believe Israel is a democracy while (like in Animal Farm) some are &quot;more equal&quot; than others. 

Let&#039;s not be unfair to Israel: after all the US suffers from the same syndrome which our (mis)leaders in Washington work overtime to perpetuate. So people in say Belgium or New Zealand or Brazil feel more safe than the people in the Lone Superpower which spends so much on militarism that its budget is equal to about the rest of the planet earth&#039;s countries combined...yet our fellow citizens are more afraid, not less, because of a regime (including complicit Democrats as well as the Republicans) intent on terrorizing their citizens: keeping us terrified.

Similarly you have a country in the middle east which unlike any other country in the world has this level of Protection from the Lone Superpower, which none other have. On top of that, this country has 100 or 200 nuclear weapons. On top of that, for &quot;conventional&quot; power, it boasts of having the strongest airforce outside of NATO, no actually, more advanced than even any NATO power, aside from the US. Yet the citizens of this country are similarly kept in terror by their leaders, kept afraid, kept in a constant state of anxiety, which is what the leaders want.

Meanwhile the fact that during the 1930s some Jews argued against &quot;tribalism&quot; is, insanely, equated with &quot;it&#039;s all their fault the holocaust happened&quot; Really?? The fact that some felt German first and Jewish second is another silly argument to try to Shut Up any critic of modern Israel. Do you have survey results or polls showing who felt that way? Maybe more right-wing militarists felt &quot;I&#039;m german first, Jewish second&quot; and maybe fewer left-wing felt that way? The left if anything leans towards internationalism rather than nationalism. I have no data to support this, the point is no data is given (nor, apparently, necessary) to lump eveyrthing together, conveniently:

Anyone who ever argues for less tribalism &quot;equals&quot; anyone who did so back in the 1930s &quot;equals&quot; anyone who wasn&#039;t &quot;Jewish enough&quot; back then &quot;equals&quot; the only reason (according to this line of insanity) why the Holocaust happened &quot;equals&quot; anyone who today criticizes the state of Israel. When you spell it out it&#039;s clear how mad this is, but it&#039;s much worse than that.

At least progressives understand that it&#039;s insane to lump &quot;being against GW Bush&#039;s policies&quot; with &quot;Being against the US&quot; however even progressives sometimes, buy into equating &quot;Criticizing the Israeli state&quot; with &quot;anti-Israel&quot;, which is equally insane. Bush is harming the American people, his policies, so are those of the Israeli state. I stand up and say,&quot;no, those of you are for Palestinian rights and for democracy and against militarism and criticize the state of Israel&#039;s policies, you are NOT anti-Israel, you are pro-Israel&quot;  The militarists are the ones whose policies are anti-Israel, harming Israelis as well as Palestinians, harming the welfare of the people, the environment, harming democracy, and even risking the survival of Israel in any state (whether &quot;Jewish&quot; or not) as a country, if they keep on their war-mongering path.

Militarists have always put the world on its head. The most famous example is &quot;what about those who appeased Hitler in WWII&quot; and I&#039;d love to write a long, long essay about that, maybe DF has or will some day, but guess what? Who ran US policies or UK policies during the 1930s? Ghandi?  A 5 year old Martin Luther King JR? The Quakers? The peace movement? I didn&#039;t think so!! 

The militarists did, they appeased Hitler, and for the ugliest of reasons. There is nothing wrong with anti-communism, I&#039;m &quot;anti&quot; the Soviet system as much as I am &quot;anti&quot; the corporate feudalism that goes by the pretense of &quot;Capitalism&quot; in today&#039;s economy..but that certain brand, namely right-wing anti-communism, is the kind that does not mind the human rights of communism (after all the fund human rights abusers all over the planet) but see it merely as competition, and they Loved to appease Hitler, these militarists and right-wingers, in part to let Hitler and Stalin &quot;go at each other&quot; This is the mentality that funded both Iran and Iraqi in the 1980s and who suffered? The leaders of these countries? No, Washington&#039;s policies tortured killed and caused misery for millions in both those countries.  Of course the right-wing militarists also refused to use bombing for one useful thing: against the Nazi&#039;s ability to continue the death camps; these right-wing militarists refused to let Jews to the US, these right-wing militarists even liked much of what Hitler did (you know, killing union leaders, etc)

IF there was time, we should all write and public long essays to publicize and expand on this, every time that sick ugly slander comes from the right pretending it was somehow the peace or left which did the appeasing which these rightwing militarists did. You know who funded Saddam? The CIA. Who funded Noriega? The CIA. Who funded the parent group of Al Qaeda? The CIA, and related rightwing militarist branches of Washington who then have the Chutzpah to try to smear the left with the &quot;you&#039;re soft on [the bad guys]. Maybe putting these rightwing militarists on trial for crimes against Jews and crimes against humanity, up to and including Bush, Cheney, Bush Sr, the WWII militarists still alive, Condi Rice, Rumsfeld, Colin Powell (who&#039;s far from innocent no matter the soft treatment he gets) and give them the Nurember Trials they deserve.

Now part of me feels better having vented...another part is just sickened, not sure what&#039;s more sickening, the ugly crimes of the right, or the hypocrisy with which they then present themselves as the angels? Time for a walk outside to cool off..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dennis, your link to the Q/A has a typo, &#8220;html://&#8221; when you meant &#8220;http://&#8221;</p>
<p>I am an Israeli born dual citizen (US and Israel) and have spent most of my life in the US. Naftali&#8217;s view of the world is a caricature that bears little resemblance to reality, but sadly is it not uncommon.</p>
<p>People can believe that &#8220;all men are create equal&#8221; and still own slaves, and people can believe Israel is a democracy while (like in Animal Farm) some are &#8220;more equal&#8221; than others. </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s not be unfair to Israel: after all the US suffers from the same syndrome which our (mis)leaders in Washington work overtime to perpetuate. So people in say Belgium or New Zealand or Brazil feel more safe than the people in the Lone Superpower which spends so much on militarism that its budget is equal to about the rest of the planet earth&#8217;s countries combined&#8230;yet our fellow citizens are more afraid, not less, because of a regime (including complicit Democrats as well as the Republicans) intent on terrorizing their citizens: keeping us terrified.</p>
<p>Similarly you have a country in the middle east which unlike any other country in the world has this level of Protection from the Lone Superpower, which none other have. On top of that, this country has 100 or 200 nuclear weapons. On top of that, for &#8220;conventional&#8221; power, it boasts of having the strongest airforce outside of NATO, no actually, more advanced than even any NATO power, aside from the US. Yet the citizens of this country are similarly kept in terror by their leaders, kept afraid, kept in a constant state of anxiety, which is what the leaders want.</p>
<p>Meanwhile the fact that during the 1930s some Jews argued against &#8220;tribalism&#8221; is, insanely, equated with &#8220;it&#8217;s all their fault the holocaust happened&#8221; Really?? The fact that some felt German first and Jewish second is another silly argument to try to Shut Up any critic of modern Israel. Do you have survey results or polls showing who felt that way? Maybe more right-wing militarists felt &#8220;I&#8217;m german first, Jewish second&#8221; and maybe fewer left-wing felt that way? The left if anything leans towards internationalism rather than nationalism. I have no data to support this, the point is no data is given (nor, apparently, necessary) to lump eveyrthing together, conveniently:</p>
<p>Anyone who ever argues for less tribalism &#8220;equals&#8221; anyone who did so back in the 1930s &#8220;equals&#8221; anyone who wasn&#8217;t &#8220;Jewish enough&#8221; back then &#8220;equals&#8221; the only reason (according to this line of insanity) why the Holocaust happened &#8220;equals&#8221; anyone who today criticizes the state of Israel. When you spell it out it&#8217;s clear how mad this is, but it&#8217;s much worse than that.</p>
<p>At least progressives understand that it&#8217;s insane to lump &#8220;being against GW Bush&#8217;s policies&#8221; with &#8220;Being against the US&#8221; however even progressives sometimes, buy into equating &#8220;Criticizing the Israeli state&#8221; with &#8220;anti-Israel&#8221;, which is equally insane. Bush is harming the American people, his policies, so are those of the Israeli state. I stand up and say,&#8221;no, those of you are for Palestinian rights and for democracy and against militarism and criticize the state of Israel&#8217;s policies, you are NOT anti-Israel, you are pro-Israel&#8221;  The militarists are the ones whose policies are anti-Israel, harming Israelis as well as Palestinians, harming the welfare of the people, the environment, harming democracy, and even risking the survival of Israel in any state (whether &#8220;Jewish&#8221; or not) as a country, if they keep on their war-mongering path.</p>
<p>Militarists have always put the world on its head. The most famous example is &#8220;what about those who appeased Hitler in WWII&#8221; and I&#8217;d love to write a long, long essay about that, maybe DF has or will some day, but guess what? Who ran US policies or UK policies during the 1930s? Ghandi?  A 5 year old Martin Luther King JR? The Quakers? The peace movement? I didn&#8217;t think so!! </p>
<p>The militarists did, they appeased Hitler, and for the ugliest of reasons. There is nothing wrong with anti-communism, I&#8217;m &#8220;anti&#8221; the Soviet system as much as I am &#8220;anti&#8221; the corporate feudalism that goes by the pretense of &#8220;Capitalism&#8221; in today&#8217;s economy..but that certain brand, namely right-wing anti-communism, is the kind that does not mind the human rights of communism (after all the fund human rights abusers all over the planet) but see it merely as competition, and they Loved to appease Hitler, these militarists and right-wingers, in part to let Hitler and Stalin &#8220;go at each other&#8221; This is the mentality that funded both Iran and Iraqi in the 1980s and who suffered? The leaders of these countries? No, Washington&#8217;s policies tortured killed and caused misery for millions in both those countries.  Of course the right-wing militarists also refused to use bombing for one useful thing: against the Nazi&#8217;s ability to continue the death camps; these right-wing militarists refused to let Jews to the US, these right-wing militarists even liked much of what Hitler did (you know, killing union leaders, etc)</p>
<p>IF there was time, we should all write and public long essays to publicize and expand on this, every time that sick ugly slander comes from the right pretending it was somehow the peace or left which did the appeasing which these rightwing militarists did. You know who funded Saddam? The CIA. Who funded Noriega? The CIA. Who funded the parent group of Al Qaeda? The CIA, and related rightwing militarist branches of Washington who then have the Chutzpah to try to smear the left with the &#8220;you&#8217;re soft on [the bad guys]. Maybe putting these rightwing militarists on trial for crimes against Jews and crimes against humanity, up to and including Bush, Cheney, Bush Sr, the WWII militarists still alive, Condi Rice, Rumsfeld, Colin Powell (who&#8217;s far from innocent no matter the soft treatment he gets) and give them the Nurember Trials they deserve.</p>
<p>Now part of me feels better having vented&#8230;another part is just sickened, not sure what&#8217;s more sickening, the ugly crimes of the right, or the hypocrisy with which they then present themselves as the angels? Time for a walk outside to cool off..</p>
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		<title>By: Naftali</title>
		<link>http://blog.dennisfox.net/index.php/archives/2008/01/25/let%e2%80%99s-keep-criticism-honest/comment-page-1/#comment-264958</link>
		<dc:creator>Naftali</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 22:25:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dennisfox.net/index.php/archives/2008/01/25/let%e2%80%99s-keep-criticism-honest/#comment-264958</guid>
		<description>Your blog and Joel Kovel remind me of those Jews in Germany not that long ago, who thought that they were more German than the Germans. Many of them havd even converted. They disdained this &quot;Jewish Tribalism&quot; that you claim to despise as well. Much to their dismay, the Garmans saw them just as much a parasitic Jew as the ones in the Shtetel with payis and shtreimel. You and Kovel and that rat Finkelstein are &quot;learned academics&quot; but you know NOTHING about history and human nature. If we Jews depended on people like you we would all be up in smoke, just like my mothers extended family did in Auschwitz.

Unlike you, I chose to move to Israel, joined the army in the paratroops and served 7 years in military/security related work. I do not live in an Ivory tower where one thinks that if we just ask nicely and do whatever the Arab/Muslim world wants us to do, there will be peace and harmony in the Middle East and in the World. What is really galling however, is that you and Kovel and the likes walk hand in hand with those who would butcher us. In fact, often you lead these people in their vilification of Jews/Israelis. That is the behaviour of either a deluded individual with no sense of the real world or a Kapo. You deserve nothing but contempt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your blog and Joel Kovel remind me of those Jews in Germany not that long ago, who thought that they were more German than the Germans. Many of them havd even converted. They disdained this &#8220;Jewish Tribalism&#8221; that you claim to despise as well. Much to their dismay, the Garmans saw them just as much a parasitic Jew as the ones in the Shtetel with payis and shtreimel. You and Kovel and that rat Finkelstein are &#8220;learned academics&#8221; but you know NOTHING about history and human nature. If we Jews depended on people like you we would all be up in smoke, just like my mothers extended family did in Auschwitz.</p>
<p>Unlike you, I chose to move to Israel, joined the army in the paratroops and served 7 years in military/security related work. I do not live in an Ivory tower where one thinks that if we just ask nicely and do whatever the Arab/Muslim world wants us to do, there will be peace and harmony in the Middle East and in the World. What is really galling however, is that you and Kovel and the likes walk hand in hand with those who would butcher us. In fact, often you lead these people in their vilification of Jews/Israelis. That is the behaviour of either a deluded individual with no sense of the real world or a Kapo. You deserve nothing but contempt.</p>
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		<title>By: Psychology &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Letâ€™s Keep Criticism Honest</title>
		<link>http://blog.dennisfox.net/index.php/archives/2008/01/25/let%e2%80%99s-keep-criticism-honest/comment-page-1/#comment-263666</link>
		<dc:creator>Psychology &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Letâ€™s Keep Criticism Honest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 20:45:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dennisfox.net/index.php/archives/2008/01/25/let%e2%80%99s-keep-criticism-honest/#comment-263666</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] dennisfox wrote an interesting post today on Let&acirc;€™s Keep Criticism HonestHere&#8217;s a quick excerptPerhaps reflecting my training in social psychology, generally I think most people try to do the right thing given their understanding of the world and the circumstances in which they find themselves. The problem is that sometimes weâ€™re &#8230; [...]</p>
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